BigHook Chat — Friday, September 7

  • 8:30 to 10:00 AM, Session 6a: What I Need to do on Monday -- Vint Cerf
  • 10:30 AM to Noon, Session 6b: Bridge to Somewhere, Everybody
Sep 7
8:50 AM
Peter K.
Peter K.
Sep 7
8:55 AM
Peter K.
Peter K.
Peter K.
sorry, homophonic typo, it's really http://www.qwaq.com/
Sep 7
9:00 AM
Doc S.
Are lawyers the middle finger of the Invisible Hand?
elliot n.
"qwaq" is a great example of why web 2.0 company names do not work well. if this project is in any way successful, these folks http://quack.com/ will get tons of free leads.
Peter K.
homework assignment: 2 paragraphs on "what I learned at BigHook 2007"
Sep 7
9:05 AM
Peter K.
was there: an aha; a learning; something i can use monday; a way i've changed
Peter K.
or what i'm thinking about now that i wasn't before
steve k.
Because we have badbandwidth, people spend more on boxes. the joys of sub-optimization... Corporate America is working to provide enterprise WAN performance to copper connected, remote offices. This drive to improve WAN performance is creating unparalleled growth opportunities for the primary WAN Optimization vendors  Riverbed (RVBD), Cisco (CSCO), and Blue Coat Systems (BCSI).
steve k.
sorry the "Corproate America line is from an investment report.
Peter K.
homework due date: october 1st
elliot n.
I am sending a text email!
Sep 7
9:10 AM
Britt B.
Private Flickr group?
Frank P.
has left the room
Peter K.
elliot n.
I love the idea of a private flickr group
Sep 7
9:15 AM
Peter K.
tangent, from David Weinberger (via Twitter): "Back from Toronto. Why do US Americans seem hysterical, and not in the funny sense? Oh well. Home."
Sep 7
9:20 AM
Tim D.
The BT point on capex vs. opex is fun, and its nice (for Cable MSOs) to think that potential new entrants are that dumb, but I have a hard time beleiving it.
Greg E.
Test
Dewayne H.
has entered the room
Peter K.
book rec from vint: "The Origin of Wealth: Evolution, Complexity, and the Radical Remaking of Economics (Harvard Business School Press and Random House) by Eric D. Beinhocker" <http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Wealth-Evolut…;
Sep 7
9:25 AM
elliot n.
the rulemakers will NEVER be able to enforce against cablecos/telcos
elliot n.
NEVER (sadly)
scrawford
Also http://kwonbook.com/about/ by David Warsh
kc c.
has entered the room
steve k.
on "the origin of wealth" book - if you know basic economics skim the first half of the book or it bogs down.
scrawford
the warsh book is a total page-turner - gripping.
Peter K.
oneness: monk asks a hot dog vendor, "make me one with everything?"
Sep 7
9:30 AM
Peter K.
vint: "commercialization of the internet led to a massive expansion of access"
elliot n.
it was not commercialization (imho) but open access in the rules that allowed it
scrawford
it was both: access provided privately, but on a common carriage basis.
Peter K.
vint: otoh, now that it's commercialized, we're seeing effects of unenlightened self-interest (aka greed)
elliot n.
it was the common carriage elements that allowed it to flourish
Scott B.
imo - the expansion came when the feds said 'you can connect but I will not carry commercial traffic'
elliot n.
there is a great "little" case study in what bells were allowed to do to port costs in some jurisdictions and not others in the mid-90's
elliot n.
scott, that was (definitely) an earlier expansion. I am more referring to the end-user boom of '95-'98 or so
elliot n.
the "definitely" referred to the reason
Sep 7
9:35 AM
Scott B.
ok - imo - that expansion came because the web let mom cerf
Peter K.
there's a great community at broadbandreports.com to launch "beacon" software to collect net performance data at the ends
elliot n.
cerf? was that freudian? :-)
Scott B.
Scott B.
:-)
elliot n.
agree scott. and mom could only surf because of the army of small ISPs who helped her.
scrawford
it's "kenn"
Sep 7
9:40 AM
Peter K.
bighook: being respectful while having disagreements
elliot n.
television should, but will not, learn from the music and newspaper industries before them. sad.
scrawford
the television business should sell their spectrum and retire to the countryside.
elliot n.
GREAT idea susan
elliot n.
there is a whole story on the production side that is also relevant here. dick wolf (law and order), alliance-atlantis (CSI) and mark burnett (survivor and others) have been the sum total of network television outside of sports and, to a much lesser extent, news, for the past 5 years.
scrawford
remember that vint stood on steve's shoulders to break into the ucla computer lab on saturdays
steve k.
one big learning from me... " " The telcos think they have gotten away from common carrier obligations, but the common law framework is still lurking altho hasn't been tested/activated.
Sep 7
9:45 AM
elliot n.
Peter K.
elliot n.
bob young will tell you that storytelling was the key to his success at red hat
Peter K.
elliot n.
apple NOW sells the song for $0.99 AND the ringtone for $0.99!
Sep 7
9:50 AM
Tim D.
where can you find the ringtones?
elliot n.
it is supposed to be live in itunes starting today
Sep 7
9:55 AM
Peter K.
Britt B.
Thanks to Vint, we are all devout tcpippians, and he is the Archbishop. We worship the power of packet-switched communications - TCP/IP - to transform our world by delivering the greatest good to the greatest number of users of our shared socioeconomic operating system: a common wealth if ever there was one.
Doc S.
Is metaphor a story? I think it's the main story. If that's not what I ranted about last year, or if nobody remembers it, I'd like to rant 3 minutes on it. But only by request.
elliot n.
once again all about the externalities! nice
Greg E.
Scott Bradner: "The Internet is designed to support the next application, not the current application."
elliot n.
the don't care as opposed to don't believe
Sep 7
10:00 AM
elliot n.
and some nice storytelling inside of the scott's story with the teaser and then the finish!
Peter K.
Mr. Ratchett: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_on_the…: great summaries like vint's and scott's would perfect to put on a bighook wiki. i can feel the functional gap
elliot n.
you can fill as opposed to feel it peter!
Peter K.
... between how i know how to use wikis, and how bighookers might not yet. i'll have to figure out how to close that better
Tim D.
Doc's rant on cognitive lingusitics last year was impressive
Doc S.
Shall I give it again? I wasn't going to, but Rick is motivating me. I'd like to add to what he's saying here.
chad j.
has left the room
Doc S.
Key point: we have no choice about using meaphors; we do have choice about which metaphors we use.
elliot n.
that was too fair and smart to ever happen richard!
Sep 7
10:05 AM
Peter K.
Greg E.
Greg E.
elliot n.
elliot n.
and written by a big hooker!
Sep 7
10:55 AM
Peter K.
hmm, yeah, i think i outsource a lot of long-term memory to the Internet
Sep 7
11:00 AM
Peter K.
Jean R.
has entered the room
Greg E.
Sep 7
11:05 AM
Greg E.
Greg E.
Sep 7
11:10 AM
Frank P.
I always like car and sports analogies
Sep 7
11:15 AM
elliot n.
blackwater?
Peter K.
elliot n.
steve k.
Why have we had privatization in electricity and telecom? Possible explanation. Because the underlying assets were fully built out by the '80s. If they had stated regulated, they would have had to start giving the money back...
elliot n.
if I had a card left this would lead me to an ICANN rant
Doc S.
do we really need a backbone?
Peter K.
crocker: does the Internet really need a backbone?
Doc S.
The New Improved Spineless Net!
Jean R.
Exoskeleton?
Peter K.
bradner: there hasn't been a backbone in forever
Peter K.
cerf: (in one word) no.
Doc S.
Vint: "No. We do not need a backbone."
Peter K.
"in a world of abundance we don't need accounting"
Jean R.
What is the architecture for abundance?
elliot n.
there is a really important point here I think. the "backbone" (and by this I mean long haul transit), while not a single entity, actually functions really well at a competitive basis. it is the last mile where there is a huge oligarchic market failure
Doc S.
Architecture of abundance (literally): a silo.
elliot n.
this is REALLY helpful to me in helping me think about where to focus thinking and effort.
Sep 7
11:20 AM
elliot n.
AGREE!!
Doc S.
How, Elliot? (very curious)
Peter K.
(tangent: my model for abundance is our modern-day relationship to food; humans have an overabundance of it for the first time in tens of millenia. and yes, many of us have to carefully account for how much we eat every day :-)
elliot n.
\how I agree? I agree with robin about the powerful concept of user-owned infrastructure
steve k.
On abundance. READ THE LAST 2 POSTS HERE! TOm IS clearlyt channeling bighook.
steve k.
elliot n.
it is a great place for VRM
steve k.
kc c.
before you ditch the backbone you need a routing architecture whose scalability does not fundamentally rely on hierarchical aggregation (which means backbone(s))
Doc S.
heh.
Britt B.
has entered the room
elliot n.
<------ don't agree with tom's view of rent vs buy
Jean R.
Where are our blindpots?
Jean R.
blindspots
Doc S.
Wireless electricity!
Jorge O.
has entered the room
Jean R.
still tethered to an electric grid
Doc S.
I'd like to power my laptop off heat from my thighs.
Doc S.
Rather than vice versa.
elliot n.
elliot n.
Sep 7
11:25 AM
Jean R.
One Laptop Per Child
Jean R.
elliot n.
not according to NFL films! a little slo mo and some grand music and voila! $19.99
elliot n.
a cisco
elliot n.
customer no doubt!
elliot n.
and that is where the hardcore spender is! it is a GREAT example
steve k.
Why I am not owrried. MLB is not paying ANY transport provider a dime to ofer this. There is NO WAY that MLB wants to share that revenue stream with a telco. Guess who is network neutrality's best friend? who's mroe powerful in DC - MLB r the telcos?
steve k.
MLB is net neutrality insurance
Jean R.
microfinance + solar panels (http://www.carbonfree.co.uk/cf/news/wk18-0…) + one laptop per child = ?
Greg E.
Adam P.
has entered the room
Sep 7
11:30 AM
steve k.
EC2 is amazon's online storage by the drink service.
Peter K.
elin: "my applications are twittering" - to each other!
Peter K.
ec2 is computing; s3 is storage
Peter K.
elliot n.
greg, are you using "twittering" as = computer to computer communication?
Peter K.
ec2 servers are $0.10/server hour
Peter K.
== $75/month, which is a great deal
elliot n.
that is why these will not succeed
Don J.
Or do you mean twitter proper? http://www.twitter.com
Peter K.
but now there are even cheaper virtual server providers: http://www.socialtext.net/peterkaminski/in…
Greg E.
Elliot: My applications are "twittering" in that they are passing more and more smaller and small messages rather than using the network for just big file transfers.
steve k.
I know that one large user of EC2 is a "major" oil company storing some huge amounts of data there. The twist is that it is being paid for by one person's creadit card. Conclusion? Someone is buying strage offline and charging it in via his expense account because his central IT department is either too exepnsive or unresponsive to rvide the storage in-house. this is a VERY BIG DEAL since most enterprise tech innovation has been this sort of "get aroung the Glass House of IT" behavior.
Greg E.
We are not (yet) using twitter.com as an communication protocol for an application. Sorry about being vague.
Sep 7
11:35 AM
steve k.
I lik this twittering = small messages term. It really fits.
Greg E.
However, twitter and Jaiku will get used eventually by very loosely coupled applications for synching them in the same way we see RSS getting used.
Greg E.
Steve K.: Yes, its the small messages...
elliot n.
we thank you!!
Greg E.
Steve K: also right on regarding EC2 and S3 and the credit card. The fast movers inside in a corporation can now move on their own.
Greg E.
elliot n: pls explain "that is why these will not succeed"?
Peter K.
Peter K.
iphone vs. n800
elliot n.
sec greg......
Don J.
I use N800 as portable web tablet to control mp3 playing around the house
Sep 7
11:40 AM
elliot n.
user experience > user interface; a superset
Don J.
Apple TV won't we awesome until I can play ripped DVDs on it (VIDEO_TS folders)
Don J.
won't be
Jean R.
elliot n.
field building?
elliot n.
got it
Jean R.
Sep 7
11:45 AM
elliot n.
steve k.
great anecdote on traffic lights - there is some sort of radio device used by ambulances that signals trafic ights to go "green." rivate indivduals have been buying them to force traffic lights to go green for them. charming. also why libertariaism breaks down in reality.
kc c.
nsf has been using this term 'informational science' to refer to an emerging discipline of scientific approaches to curating oceans of data
Jean R.
Macarthur award for field-building digital media and education: http://www.dmlcompetition.net/networking.php
Sep 7
11:50 AM
elliot n.
tim is SOOOOOOOO right.
Jorge O.
has left the room
Sep 7
11:55 AM
Greg E.
This is an example of the scale of the infrastructure relative to what's being transported.
steve k.
that is why the european telcos are starting to like their local access networks - they FINALLY took a hard look at the costs. realized a lot of money and almost no risk is in the local access network.
Peter K.
a cool thing about traffic lights; if the cars can communicate with the intersection and change their speed slightly, they can "reserve" an intersection transit that won't collide with anybody else, and *nobody* needs to stop
Peter K.
really cool java demos of intersection reservation: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~kdresner/aim/old…
Sep 7
12:00 PM
elliot n.
View paste 
You re the light,
That lights my way,
On a rain night,
You re the road that s headed home
When it s bitter outside
You re the hand that I hold
When I'm scared of the dark

There ll never ever be another you
I can search my whole life through
It s no use
All roads lead me to you
There ll never be another you
elliot n.
View paste 
You re the first warm breath of spring
When the winter ends
You re my secret hiding place
When the world is closing in
You re the rain pouring down
When the well runs dry

There ll never ever be another you
I can search my whole life through
It s no use
All roads lead me to you
There ll never be another you, oh no
elliot n.
View paste (2 more lines) 
Never be another

You re the rain pouring down
When the well runs dry

Never be another, be another you
Never be another, oh no

There ll never ever be another you
I can search my whole life through
It s no use
All roads lead me to you
There ll never be another you

Never be another you
...
Sep 7
3:45 PM
Peter K.
a file of participants' email addresses; i'll email more about what to do with it

 

BigHook Chat

People in this transcript

  • Aaron Swartz
  • Adam Peake
  • Anders Fernstedt
  • Barbara Cherry
  • Britt Blaser
  • Casey Lide
  • chad jones
  • Charles Gritton
  • David I.
  • Desiree Miloshevic
  • Dewayne Hendricks
  • Display
  • Doc Searls
  • Don Jackson
  • Douglas Frosst
  • elliot noss
  • Frank Paynter
  • Greg Elin
  • Jean Russell
  • Jorge Ortiz
  • kc claffy
  • Peter Kaminski
  • Richard Whitt
  • Scott Bradner
  • scrawford
  • steve kamman
  • Tim D.