Tuesday, May 16, 2006
Comment worth noting
Kevin D. comments on my post, Telcos: "Trust us." He writes:
I deeply honor Kevin D's right to make this comment. My hat is off to Kevin D. and all who value Free Speech and all the other civil liberties guaranteed by our Constitution.
Ah, did you forget that we're engaged in a war on terror. It's believed that there are terrorist cells and sympathizers within U.S. borders. Collecting phone numbers and contact other phone numbers isn't a problem. Are you calling terrorists? Then what's the problem? Calls aren't being listened to, the government doesn't know what you're talking about.
How many lives could have been saved had the NSA, in cooperation with phone companies, been tracking the calling habits of the 9/11 hijackers?
We're at war, sir. I'm willing to allow the U.S. government to look at who I'm calling because I have nothing to hide.
However, I'm sure you'll blame the Bush Administration for not doing enough should we be attacked again. Completely forgetting that you denounced efforts to do just that.
I deeply honor Kevin D's right to make this comment. My hat is off to Kevin D. and all who value Free Speech and all the other civil liberties guaranteed by our Constitution.
Technorati Tags: Constitution, Freedom
Comments:
>> Ah, did you forget that we're
>> engaged in a war on terror.
No, we're not, no more so than we are in a war on "flanking maneuvers", or "propaganda". They're all just tactics, neither person, place nor thing.
>> It's believed that there are
>> terrorist cells and
>> sympathizers within U.S. borders.
"It's believed" == "I say so with no evidence, authority or proof". Since 9/11, we have arrested none, found none, stopped none, have been attacked by none.
>> How many lives could have been
>> saved had the NSA, in
>> cooperation with phone
>> companies, been tracking the
>> calling habits of the 9/11
>> hijackers?
None. All of the terrorists involved were known by various agencies of the gov't. Their calling patterns would haved added no useful information. Data mining does not find hidden patterns - it allows you to more easily expnd your knowledge from a small set of known patterns - like, oh, I don't know, leaks from the administration to reporters?
>> We're at war, sir.
Again, no, we're not.
>> I'm willing to allow the U.S.
>> government to look at who I'm
>> calling because I have nothing
>> to hide.
Paraphrasing Franklin:
Those who would sacrifice their freedoms for the hope of security shall have neither.
>> engaged in a war on terror.
No, we're not, no more so than we are in a war on "flanking maneuvers", or "propaganda". They're all just tactics, neither person, place nor thing.
>> It's believed that there are
>> terrorist cells and
>> sympathizers within U.S. borders.
"It's believed" == "I say so with no evidence, authority or proof". Since 9/11, we have arrested none, found none, stopped none, have been attacked by none.
>> How many lives could have been
>> saved had the NSA, in
>> cooperation with phone
>> companies, been tracking the
>> calling habits of the 9/11
>> hijackers?
None. All of the terrorists involved were known by various agencies of the gov't. Their calling patterns would haved added no useful information. Data mining does not find hidden patterns - it allows you to more easily expnd your knowledge from a small set of known patterns - like, oh, I don't know, leaks from the administration to reporters?
>> We're at war, sir.
Again, no, we're not.
>> I'm willing to allow the U.S.
>> government to look at who I'm
>> calling because I have nothing
>> to hide.
Paraphrasing Franklin:
Those who would sacrifice their freedoms for the hope of security shall have neither.
# posted by 
: 5/16/2006 6:53 PM
: 5/16/2006 6:53 PM
It will be interesting how fast the tune will change when the President is a Democrat. Suddenly Republicans all over the country will wake up and realize they don't trust the government - or anyone powerful enough - to track them anymore. And I wonder why all these phone taps, warmongers and political rhetoric still run and hide regarding any real action towards fighting terrorism. They want to blame immigrants, other political parties, gays, and Iraq. But none of them are remotely interested in Columbia, Afgahnistan, Saudi Arabia, Russia or the Phillipines. They continue to hide behind words while strong Americans fight for civil liberties, solutions to the root cause of terrorism and lay their lives on the line for their beliefs.
# posted by : 5/16/2006 8:37 PM
: 5/16/2006 8:37 PM
It is reasonable to consider the words of a master when worrying about how we were moved to war:
Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country
Hermann Goering (1946)
And having Bush imply criticism is non-patriotic .. well
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country
Hermann Goering (1946)
And having Bush imply criticism is non-patriotic .. well
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
I find it ironic that the U.S. Administration claims to be bringing freedom and democracy to a Middle Eastern nation - all the while slowly and quietly infringing on those same principles at home.
And history shows that attacks on liberties at home is often made under the pretext of a war against a foreign enemy.
It is easier to keep covert monitoring systems out, than to remove them once they are put in place. It is also naive to believe that, once in place, these systems couldn't [i]possibly[/i] be used for other purposes besides whatever reason the government offers to the public.
And history shows that attacks on liberties at home is often made under the pretext of a war against a foreign enemy.
It is easier to keep covert monitoring systems out, than to remove them once they are put in place. It is also naive to believe that, once in place, these systems couldn't [i]possibly[/i] be used for other purposes besides whatever reason the government offers to the public.
# posted by : 5/17/2006 1:53 PM
: 5/17/2006 1:53 PM
As a reply to Kevin D.'s comment, I have this to say:
History is not very forgiving of peoples who follow their governments blindly. I do not understand this obsession with not only handing the government your freedoms, but grinning and nodding as they place the chains around your wrists.
Of course, I have a different view of this whole "war on terror" farce. Compare the 9/11 attacks against some of the things your governments and allies have done in the past. The firebombing of Dresden, for instance. The first uses of nuclear weapons. Use of chemical weapons in Vietnam, on your own troops. The terrorists' actions are the result of your own country's lamentably short-sighted foreign policy.
The United States has a poor history of creating their own enemies. Your nation has sold war materiel and weapons to Germany prior to both world wars, Russia just before the Cold War, Iran, Iraq and supplied weapons to the Afghan Mujahideen which are now being used to kill American and Allied soldiers. The USA consistently sells arms at no profit to nations in every corner of the globe. The M-16 is now just as common a weapon worldwide as the AK-47, conveniently enough both sides of this "war on terror" can shoot one another with the same size of bullets.
History is not very forgiving of peoples who follow their governments blindly. I do not understand this obsession with not only handing the government your freedoms, but grinning and nodding as they place the chains around your wrists.
Of course, I have a different view of this whole "war on terror" farce. Compare the 9/11 attacks against some of the things your governments and allies have done in the past. The firebombing of Dresden, for instance. The first uses of nuclear weapons. Use of chemical weapons in Vietnam, on your own troops. The terrorists' actions are the result of your own country's lamentably short-sighted foreign policy.
The United States has a poor history of creating their own enemies. Your nation has sold war materiel and weapons to Germany prior to both world wars, Russia just before the Cold War, Iran, Iraq and supplied weapons to the Afghan Mujahideen which are now being used to kill American and Allied soldiers. The USA consistently sells arms at no profit to nations in every corner of the globe. The M-16 is now just as common a weapon worldwide as the AK-47, conveniently enough both sides of this "war on terror" can shoot one another with the same size of bullets.
# posted by : 5/17/2006 3:42 PM
: 5/17/2006 3:42 PM
I'm suprised people still use the 'nothing to hide' line, what with the person from Homeland Security getting arrested for child porn and everything. If you have children you have something to hide.
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# posted by : 5/21/2006 2:38 PM
: 5/21/2006 2:38 PM
